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Single Idea 16059
[filed under theme 9. Objects / E. Objects over Time / 2. Objects that Change
]
Full Idea
The Growing Argument said any change of matter is a change of identity. Chrysippus presents it with a case (Dion and Theon) where material diminution is the necessary condition of enduring identity, since the diminished footless Dion survives.
Gist of Idea
Change of matter doesn't destroy identity - in Dion and Theon change is a condition of identity
Source
report of Chrysippus (fragments/reports [c.240 BCE]) by AA Long / DN Sedley - Hellenic Philosophers commentary 28:175
Book Ref
'The Hellenistic Philosophers:Vol.1 translations', ed/tr. Long,A. /Sedley,D. [CUP 1987], p.175
A Reaction
[The example, in Idea 16058, is the original of Tibbles the Cat] This is a lovely bold idea which I haven't met in the modern discussions - that identity actually requires change. The concept of identity is meaningless without change?
Related Idea
Idea 16058
Dion and Theon coexist, but Theon lacks a foot. If Dion loses a foot, he ousts Theon? [Chrysippus, by Philo of Alexandria]
The
17 ideas
with the same theme
[how identity fares when an object's properties change]:
16159
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For animate things, only the form, not the matter or properties, must persist through change
[Aristotle, by Frede,M]
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16173
|
Coming to be is by shape-change, addition, subtraction, composition or alteration
[Aristotle]
|
17042
|
Natural things are their own source of stability through change
[Aristotle]
|
16059
|
Change of matter doesn't destroy identity - in Dion and Theon change is a condition of identity
[Chrysippus, by Long/Sedley]
|
1330
|
If a republic can retain identity through many changes, so can an individual
[Hume]
|
1321
|
If identity survives change or interruption, then resemblance, contiguity or causation must unite the parts of it
[Hume]
|
15220
|
To say something remains the same but lacks its capacities and powers seems a contradiction
[Harré/Madden]
|
15222
|
Some individuals can gain or lose capacities or powers, without losing their identity
[Harré/Madden]
|
15296
|
A particular might change all of its characteristics, retaining mere numerical identity
[Harré/Madden]
|
14737
|
Properties cannot be relations to times, if there are temporary properties which are intrinsic
[Lewis, by Sider]
|
3309
|
If a soldier continues to exist after serving as a soldier, does the wind cease to exist after it ceases to blow?
[Benardete,JA]
|
6618
|
A 'substance' is a thing that remains the same when its properties change
[Lowe]
|
16193
|
'Adverbialism' explains change by saying an object has-at-some-time a given property
[Hawley]
|
16195
|
Presentism solves the change problem: the green banana ceases, so can't 'relate' to the yellow one
[Hawley]
|
16202
|
The problem of change arises if there must be 'identity' of a thing over time
[Hawley]
|
18930
|
Change is instantiation of a non-uniform distributional property, like 'being red-then-orange'
[Cameron]
|
23018
|
How does a changing object retain identity or have incompatible properties over time?
[Baron/Miller]
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