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Single Idea 16793

[filed under theme 9. Objects / E. Objects over Time / 8. Continuity of Rivers ]

Full Idea

Less properly, one thing is said to be numerically the same as another according to the continuity of distinct parts, one in succession after another. In this way the Seine is said to be the same river after a thousand years.

Gist of Idea

A thing is (less properly) the same over time if each part is succeeded by another

Source

Jean Buridan (Questions on Aristotle's Physics [1346], I.10, f. 13vb), quoted by Robert Pasnau - Metaphysical Themes 1274-1671 29.3

Book Ref

Pasnau,Robert: 'Metaphysical Themes 1274-1671' [OUP 2011], p.696


A Reaction

This is a rather good solution to the difficulty of the looser non-transitive notion of a thing being 'the same'. The Ship of Theseus endures (in the simple case) as long as you remember to replace each departing plank. Must some parts be originals?


The 9 ideas with the same theme [is a river the same as the water in the river?]:

You can bathe in the same river twice, but not in the same river stage [Quine on Heraclitus]
It is not possible to step twice into the same river [Heraclitus]
Cratylus said you couldn't even step into the same river once [Cratylus, by Aristotle]
A thing is (less properly) the same over time if each part is succeeded by another [Buridan]
It is the same river if it has the same source, no matter what flows in it [Hobbes]
We accept the identity of a river through change, because it is the river's nature [Hume]
Humeans cannot step in the same river twice, because they cannot strictly form the concept of 'river' [Harré/Madden]
One can step into the same river twice, but not into the same water [Benardete,JA]
A river is not just event; it needs actual and counterfactual boundaries [Williamson]