more from this thinker     |     more from this text

Single Idea 2070

[filed under theme 22. Metaethics / C. The Good / 1. Goodness / f. Good as pleasure ]

Full Idea

Those who define good as pleasure are clearly confused, and are compelled to admit that there are bad pleasures, so that the same thing is both good and bad.

Gist of Idea

Even people who think pleasure is the good admit that there are bad pleasures

Source

Plato (The Republic [c.374 BCE], 505c)

Book Ref

Plato: 'Republic', ed/tr. Waterfield,Robin [OUP 1993], p.231

A Reaction

The issue is whether the pleasure can be disentangled from the action. 'It was a hideous murder, but at least the murderer enjoyed it'. Sounds wrong to me.

The 16 ideas with the same theme [pleasure is the main good in life]:

415 If happiness is bodily pleasure, then oxen are happy when they have vetch to eat [Heraclitus]
1537 Happiness is identifying and separating the pleasures [Democritus, by Stobaeus]
4322 In slaking our thirst the goodness of the action and the pleasure are clearly separate [Plato]
136 Good should be the aim of pleasant activity, not the other way round [Plato]
2070 Even people who think pleasure is the good admit that there are bad pleasures [Plato]
94 Pleasure is better with the addition of intelligence, so pleasure is not the good [Plato, by Aristotle]
23 The masses believe, not unreasonably, that the good is pleasure [Aristotle]
5269 Pleasure is not the Good, and not every pleasure is desirable [Aristotle]
1833 Pleasure is the first good in life [Epicurus]
14057 All pleasures are good, but it is not always right to choose them [Epicurus]
14058 Pleasure is the goal, but as lack of pain and calm mind, not as depraved or greedy pleasure [Epicurus]
1840 Pleasure is the chief good because it is the most natural, especially for animals [Epicurus, by Diog. Laertius]
1777 Pleasure is not the good, because there are disgraceful pleasures [Chrysippus, by Diog. Laertius]
5973 Justice can be preserved if pleasure is a good, but not if it is the goal [Chrysippus, by Plutarch]
21870 Music is good for a melancholic, bad for a mourner, and indifferent to the deaf [Spinoza]
3256 Pain doesn't have a further property of badness; it gives a reason for its avoidance [Nagel]