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Single Idea 23872

[filed under theme 15. Nature of Minds / B. Features of Minds / 1. Consciousness / a. Consciousness ]

Full Idea

In the Marxist formula 'social existence determines consciousness' there are more contradictions than words. Since 'social' can only exist in human minds, 'social existence' is already consciousness. It cannot determine consciousness, which is undefined.

Gist of Idea

'Society determines consciousness' is contradictory; society only exists in minds

Source

comment on K Marx / F Engels (The German Ideology [1846]) by Simone Weil - Fragments p.126

Book Ref

Weil,Simone: 'Oppression and Liberty' [Routledge 1955], p.126

A Reaction

I'm not convinced that society only exists in minds. Many children in Victorian London had never heard of 'London', but that didn't stop it existing. Our problems are often social substrata of which we are unaware.

Related Idea

Idea 5277 Life is not determined by consciousness, but consciousness by life [Marx/Engels]

The 21 ideas with the same theme [general ideas about consciousness]:

7995 In all living beings I am the light of consciousness, says Krishna [Anon (Bhag)]
19354 Leibniz introduced the idea of degrees of consciousness, essential for his monads [Leibniz, by Perkins]
23658 Consciousness is an indefinable and unique operation [Reid]
4166 A consciousness without an object is no consciousness [Schopenhauer]
23872 'Society determines consciousness' is contradictory; society only exists in minds [Weil on Marx/Engels]
5277 Life is not determined by consciousness, but consciousness by life [Marx/Engels]
19626 Our instincts had to be blunted and diminished, to make way for consciousness! [Cioran]
21941 Unlike Marxists, Foucault explains thought internally, without deference to conscious ideas [Foucault, by Gutting]
5786 A system is either conscious or it isn't, though the intensity varies a lot [Searle]
5794 Consciousness has a first-person ontology, which only exists from a subjective viewpoint [Searle]
5795 There isn't one consciousness (information-processing) which can be investigated, and another (phenomenal) which can't [Searle]
4884 Brain states must be in my head, and yet the pain seems to be in my hand [Perry]
2528 Does consciousness need the concept of consciousness? [Dennett]
7367 Perhaps the brain doesn't 'fill in' gaps in consciousness if no one is looking. [Dennett]
7393 We can't draw a clear line between conscious and unconscious [Dennett]
4880 Sentience comes in grades from robotic to super-human; we only draw a line for moral reasons [Dennett]
7854 Whether octopuses feel pain is unclear, because our phenomenal concepts are too vague [Papineau]
7889 Our concept of consciousness is crude, and lacks theoretical articulation [Papineau]
7891 We can’t decide what 'conscious' means, so it is undecidable whether cats are conscious [Papineau]
4621 Whatever exists has qualities, so it is no surprise that states of minds have qualities [Heil]
6668 If the present does not exist, then consciousness must be memory of the immediate past [Marshall]