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Single Idea 16174

[filed under theme 9. Objects / B. Unity of Objects / 3. Unity Problems / c. Statue and clay ]

Full Idea

What it is to be shapeless is different from what it is to be bronze. …An underlying nature is related to substance as, in general, matter (which is to say, something shapeless), before it gains shape, is to something with shape.

Gist of Idea

A nature is related to a substance as shapeless matter is to something which has a shape

Source

Aristotle (Physics [c.337 BCE], 190b39-)

Book Ref

Aristotle: 'Physics', ed/tr. Waterfield,Robin [OUP 1996], p.27

A Reaction

This is an interesting take on the modern problem that the bronze seems to be a separate 'object' from the statue. If bronze is amorphous stuff, it has no shape, presumably because it has no significant shape.

The 38 ideas with the same theme [united objects with separate aspects]:

10951 The statue is not called 'stone' but 'stoney' [Aristotle]
16085 Primary matter and form make a unity, one in potentiality, the other in actuality [Aristotle]
16096 Statues depend on their bronze, but bronze doesn't depend on statues [Aristotle, by Gill,ML]
16174 A nature is related to a substance as shapeless matter is to something which has a shape [Aristotle]
17643 Shape is essential relative to 'statue', but not essential relative to 'clay' [Putnam]
17513 If there are two objects, then 'that marble, man-shaped object' is ambiguous [Ayers]
14064 If a statue is identical with the clay of which it is made, that identity is contingent [Gibbard]
14066 A 'piece' of clay begins when its parts stick together, separately from other clay [Gibbard]
14067 Clay and statue are two objects, which can be named and reasoned about [Gibbard]
14069 We can only investigate the identity once we have designated it as 'statue' or as 'clay' [Gibbard]
17562 The statue and lump seem to share parts, but the statue is not part of the lump [Inwagen]
17574 If you knead clay you make an infinite series of objects, but they are rearrangements, not creations [Inwagen]
16071 Sculpting a lump of clay destroys one object, and replaces it with another one [Burke,M, by Wasserman]
16234 Burke says when two object coincide, one of them is destroyed in the process [Burke,M, by Hawley]
13278 Maybe the clay becomes a different lump when it becomes a statue [Burke,M, by Koslicki]
13383 If the statue is loved and the clay hated, that is about the object first qua statue, then qua clay [Jubien]
13400 If one entity is an object, a statue, and some clay, these come apart in at least three ways [Jubien]
14381 A statue is essentially the statue, but its lump is not essentially a statue, so statue isn't lump [Yablo, by Rocca]
7047 Statues and bronze lumps have discernible differences, so can't be identical [Heil]
7048 Do we reduce statues to bronze, or eliminate statues, or allow statues and bronze? [Heil]
16078 Clay is intrinsically and atomically the same as statue (and that lacks 'modal properties') [Rudder Baker]
16077 The clay is not a statue - it borrows that property from the statue it constitutes [Rudder Baker]
16545 The essence of lumps and statues shows that two objects coincide but are numerically distinct [Lowe]
16546 The essence of a bronze statue shows that it could be made of different bronze [Lowe]
4204 Statues can't survive much change to their shape, unlike lumps of bronze, which must retain material [Lowe]
14752 Artists 'create' statues because they are essentially statues, and so lack identity with the lump of clay [Sider]
16237 The modal features of statue and lump are disputed; when does it stop being that statue? [Hawley]
16238 Perdurantists can adopt counterpart theory, to explain modal differences of identical part-sums [Hawley]
6137 Clay does not 'constitute' a statue, as they have different persistence conditions (flaking, squashing) [Merricks]
13798 Maybe we should give up the statue [Elder]
7948 A statue and its matter have different persistence conditions, so they are not identical [Macdonald,C]
14497 The clay is just a part of the statue (its matter); the rest consists of its form or structure [Koslicki]
13280 Statue and clay differ in modal and temporal properties, and in constitution [Koslicki]
18060 We can explain the statue/clay problem by a category mistake with a false premise [Magidor]
14482 If the statue and the lump are two objects, they require separate properties, so we could add their masses [Thomasson]
14483 Given the similarity of statue and lump, what could possibly ground their modal properties? [Thomasson]
14542 If statue and clay fall and crush someone, the event is not overdetermined [Mumford/Anjum]
16769 If clay survives destruction of the statue, the statue wasn't a substance, but a mere accident [Pasnau]