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27. Natural Reality / C. Space / 5. Relational Space

[space as entirely the relations between objects]

8 ideas
If everything is in a place, what is the place in? Place doesn't exist [Zeno of Elea, by Simplicius]
     Full Idea: If there is a place it will be in something, because everything that exists is in something. But what is in something is in a place. Therefore the place will be in a place, and so on ad infinitum. Therefore, there is no such thing as place.
     From: report of Zeno (Elea) (fragments/reports [c.450 BCE], B3) by Simplicius - On Aristotle's 'Physics' 9.562.3
Place is not shape, or matter, or extension between limits; it is the limits of a body [Aristotle]
     Full Idea: Place must be one of four things: shape, or matter, or some kind of extension between the limits of the container, or the limits themselves. …The first three can evidently be ruled out…so it must be the limit of the containing body.
     From: Aristotle (Physics [c.337 BCE], 211b06)
     A reaction: As it stands this doesn't have much intuitive appeal. It is rather difficult to define a 'limit' without making some reference to 'space' and 'place'. One must read this chunk of Aristotle to see his drift.
We can locate the parts of the universe, but not the whole thing [Locke]
     Full Idea: We have no idea of the place of the universe, though we can of all the parts of it.
     From: John Locke (Essay Conc Human Understanding (2nd Ed) [1694], 2.13.10)
     A reaction: Locke evidently agrees with the Leibniz view of space as relative, rather than with Newton's absolute view. …But see Idea 15981.
Space is an order among actual and possible things [Leibniz]
     Full Idea: Space is a relationship: an order, not only among existents, but also among possibles as though they existed.
     From: Gottfried Leibniz (New Essays on Human Understanding [1704], 2.13)
     A reaction: The modal end to this idea is a bit puzzling. Would there be any space if there were only possibles, and nothing yet existed, as in God's mind the instant before he got to work?
Relational space is problematic if you take the idea of a field seriously [Field,H]
     Full Idea: The problem of the relational view of space is especially acute in the context of physical theories that take the notion of a field seriously, e.g. classical electromagnetic theory.
     From: Hartry Field (Science without Numbers [1980], 4)
     A reaction: In the Leibniz-Clarke debate I sided with the Newtonian Clarke (defending absolute space), and it looks like modern science agrees with me. Nothing exists purely as relations.
For relationists moving an object beyond the edge of space creates new space [Le Poidevin]
     Full Idea: For the relationist, if Archytas goes to the edge of space and extends his arm, he is creating a new spatial relation between objects, and thus extending space, which is, after all, just the collection of thos relations.
     From: Robin Le Poidevin (Travels in Four Dimensions [2003], 05 'beyond')
     A reaction: The obvious point is what are you moving your arm into? And how can some movements be in space, while others create new space? It's a bad theory.
If space is entirely relational, what makes a boundary, or a place unoccupied by physical objects? [Lowe]
     Full Idea: If space does not exist at all, but is only relations between objects, what could one possibly mean by saying that there is a place which is unoccupied by any material object? And what determines whether space is bounded?
     From: E.J. Lowe (A Survey of Metaphysics [2002], p.264)
     A reaction: Correct. People who assert that space is only relational have been misled by what we can know about space, not what it is.
'Space' in physics just means location [Hesketh]
     Full Idea: 'Space' in physics really just means location.
     From: Gavin Hesketh (The Particle Zoo [2016], 06)
     A reaction: Location can, of course, only be specified relative to something else. Space is really an abstraction, but at least it means there is some sort of background to locate all the fundamental fields.