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All the ideas for 'Recent Aesthetics in England and America', 'The Upanishads' and 'Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd)'

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42 ideas

11. Knowledge Aims / A. Knowledge / 1. Knowledge
The main epistemological theories are foundationalist, coherence, probabilistic and reliabilist [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: The most familiar epistemological theories are foundation theories, coherence theories, probabilistic theories, and reliabilist theories.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], Pref)
     A reaction: A helpful list. Reliabilism is now the dominant externalist theory. Probability theories will centre on Bayes' Theorem (Idea 2798). The authors want an internalist theory that includes perceptions as well as beliefs. I currently favour coherence.
11. Knowledge Aims / B. Certain Knowledge / 1. Certainty
Most people now agree that our reasoning proceeds defeasibly, rather than deductively [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: One of the most important modern advances in epistemology was the recognition of defeasible reasons; it is now generally acknowledged that most of our reasoning proceeds defeasibly rather than deductively.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §1.2)
     A reaction: I agree totally. This is why fallibilism is clearly a correct position in epistemology (e.g. Ideas 2736 and 2755). Deduction is not the only grounds given for certainty - there are rationalist foundations (Descartes) and empiricist foundations (Moore).
To believe maximum truths, believe everything; to have infallible beliefs, believe nothing [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: If we want an agent to believe as many truths as possible, this could be achieved by simply believing everything; if we want an agent to have only true beliefs, this could be achieved by believing nothing.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §6.6)
     A reaction: I like this. It highlights the pragmatic need for a middle road, in which a core set of beliefs are going to be approved of as 'knowledge', so that we can get on with life. This has to be a social matter, and needs flexibility of Fallibilism.
11. Knowledge Aims / C. Knowing Reality / 1. Perceptual Realism / b. Direct realism
Direct realism says justification is partly a function of pure perceptual states, not of beliefs [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: We defend a version of direct realism, saying that justification must be partly a function of perceptual states themselves, and not just a function of our beliefs about perceptual states.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §1.5.3)
     A reaction: Judgement suggests that perceptual states give good justification about primary qualities (like mass or shape), but not of secondary qualities (like smell or colour). Perceptions can be downright misleading.
11. Knowledge Aims / C. Knowing Reality / 2. Phenomenalism
Phenomenalism offered conclusive perceptual knowledge, but conclusive reasons no longer seem essential [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: Phenomenalism offered the prospect of explaining perceptual knowledge within a framework that recognised only conclusive reasons; once it is acknowledged that at least induction uses nonconclusive reasons, it is no longer needed.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §2.3.3.2)
     A reaction: I'm not sure that that is the only motivation for phenomenalism, which seemed to be attempting to get as close to 'reality' as intellectual honesty would allow. I certainly favour the modern relaxed attitude to knowledge, which needn't be 'conclusive'.
12. Knowledge Sources / B. Perception / 1. Perception
Perception causes beliefs in us, without inference or justification [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: Perception is a causal process that inputs beliefs into our doxastic system without their being inferred from or justified on the basis of other beliefs we already have.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §3.2.3)
     A reaction: This topic is much discussed (e.g. by MacDowell). I don't see how something is going to qualify as a 'belief' if it doesn't involve concepts and propositions. The point that we are caused to have many of our beliefs (rather than judging) seems right.
12. Knowledge Sources / B. Perception / 6. Inference in Perception
Sense evidence is not beliefs, because they are about objective properties, not about appearances [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: We think it is a mistake to suppose that the evidence of our senses comes to us in the form of beliefs; in perception, the beliefs we form are almost invariably about the objective properties of physical objects - not about how they appear to us.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §2.5.5)
     A reaction: The tricky word here is 'evidence'. At what point in the process of perception does something begin to count as evidence? It must at least involve concepts (and maybe even propositions) if it is going to be thought about in that way.
13. Knowledge Criteria / A. Justification Problems / 1. Justification / a. Justification issues
Bayesian epistemology is Bayes' Theorem plus the 'simple rule' (believe P if it is probable) [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: Bayesian epistemology is based upon the 'simple rule' (believe P if it is sufficiently probable) and Bayes' Theorem.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §4.3.1)
     A reaction: For Bayes' Theorem, see Idea 2798. There is the question of whether the proposition is subjectively or objectively probable (I believe in ghosts, so any shadow is probably a ghost). There is also the problem of objective evidence for the calculation.
13. Knowledge Criteria / A. Justification Problems / 3. Internal or External / a. Pro-internalism
Internalism says if anything external varies, the justifiability of the belief does not vary [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: Internalist theories make justifiability of a belief a function of the internal states of the believer, in the sense that if we vary anything but his internal states the justifiability of the belief does not vary.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §5.4.3)
     A reaction: This seems to be a nice clear definition of internalism (and, by implication, externalism). It favours externalism. I know my car is in the car park; someone takes it for a joyride, then replaces it; my good justification seems thereby weakened.
13. Knowledge Criteria / B. Internal Justification / 4. Foundationalism / b. Basic beliefs
People rarely have any basic beliefs, and never enough for good foundations [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: We argue that all foundations theories are false, for the simple reason that people rarely have any epistemological basic beliefs, and never have enough to provide a foundation for the rest of our knowledge.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §1.5.3)
     A reaction: Once surprising things start to happen in a film, we rapidly jettison our normal basic beliefs, to be ready for surprises. However, it seems to me that quite a lot of beliefs are hard-wired into us, or inescapably arise from the use of our senses.
Foundationalism requires self-justification, not incorrigibility [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: What foundationalism requires is self-justification, which is weaker than incorrigibility.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §2.5.3)
     A reaction: The writers oppose foundationalism, but this remark obviously helps the theory. Bonjour votes for a fallible rationalist foundationalism, and an fallible empiricist version seems plausible (because we must check for hallucinations etc.).
13. Knowledge Criteria / B. Internal Justification / 4. Foundationalism / d. Rational foundations
Reason cannot be an ultimate foundation, because rational justification requires prior beliefs [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: Reasoning, it seems, can only justify us in holding a belief if we are already justified in holding the beliefs from which we reason, so reasoning cannot provide an ultimate source of justification.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §2.1)
     A reaction: This sounds slick and conclusive, but it isn't. If we accept that some truths might be 'self-evident' to reason, they could stand independently. And a large body of rational beliefs might be mutually self-supporting, as in the coherence theory of truth.
13. Knowledge Criteria / B. Internal Justification / 4. Foundationalism / f. Foundationalism critique
Foundationalism is wrong, because either all beliefs are prima facie justified, or none are [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: Either no belief is prima facie justified or all beliefs are prima facie justified; …we regard this as a decisive refutation of foundationalism.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §2.5.5)
     A reaction: The full text must he examined, but it is not at all clear to me how my belief that quantum theory is correct could be even remotely as prima facie justified as my belief that this is my hand. I don't think basic beliefs need be sharply divided off.
13. Knowledge Criteria / B. Internal Justification / 5. Coherentism / a. Coherence as justification
Negative coherence theories do not require reasons, so have no regress problem [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: The regress argument has no apparent strength against negative coherence theories, because they do not require reasons for beliefs.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §3.2.3)
     A reaction: A nice point. Such theories endorse Neurath's picture (Idea 6348). On the whole philosophers like positive support for their beliefs, so the rather passive picture of accepting everything unless it is undermined is not appealing. A fall-back position.
13. Knowledge Criteria / B. Internal Justification / 5. Coherentism / c. Coherentism critique
Coherence theories fail, because they can't accommodate perception as the basis of knowledge [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: All coherence theories fail, because they are unable to accommodate perception as the basic source of our knowledge of the world.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §1.5.3)
     A reaction: An interesting claim, which the authors attempt to justify. They say it is direct realism, because the perceptions justify, without any intervening beliefs. My immediate thought is that they might justify knowledge of primary qualities, but not secondary.
Coherence theories isolate justification from the world [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: The Isolation Argument objects that coherence theories cut justification off from the world.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §3.2.4)
     A reaction: I don't see this as a strong objection. Justification can be in the way beliefs cohere together, but the beliefs themselves consist of holding propositions to be true, and truth asserts a connection to the world (I say).
13. Knowledge Criteria / C. External Justification / 1. External Justification
Externalism comes as 'probabilism' (probability of truth) and 'reliabilism' (probability of good cognitive process) [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: There are two major kinds of externalist theory in the literature - probabilism (which expresses justification in terms of probability of the belief being true), and reliabilism (which refers to the probability of the cognitive processes being right).
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §4.1)
     A reaction: A useful clarification. Reliabilism has an obvious problem, that a process can be reliable, but only luckily correct on this occasion (a clock which has, unusually, stopped). A ghost is more probably there if I believe in ghosts.
13. Knowledge Criteria / C. External Justification / 2. Causal Justification
One belief may cause another, without being the basis for the second belief [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: If I fall flat on my back running to a class, my belief that I was late for class may cause me to have the belief that there are birds in the trees, but I do not believe the latter on the basis of the former.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §2.3.1)
     A reaction: A nice example, which fairly conclusively demolishes any causal theory of justification. My example is believing correctly that the phone ring is from mother, because she said she would call. Maybe causation is needed somewhere in the right theory.
13. Knowledge Criteria / D. Scepticism / 6. Scepticism Critique
We can't start our beliefs from scratch, because we wouldn't know where to start [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: We cannot forsake all of our beliefs and start over again, because then we could not know how to start.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §3.1)
     A reaction: A point with which it is hard to disagree, but even Descartes agreed with it (Idea 3604). Presumably all your beliefs can take it in turn to be doubted, while others are held true, or you can whittle the beliefs which can't be abandoned down to a minimum.
14. Science / C. Induction / 1. Induction
Enumerative induction gives a universal judgement, while statistical induction gives a proportion [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: Enumerative induction examines a sample of objects, observes they all have a property, and infers that they all have that property; statistical induction observes a proportion of the objects having the property, and infers that proportion in general.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §1.4.6)
     A reaction: There is also induction by elimination, where it is either p or q, and observation keeps saying it isn't p. A small sample is very unreliable, but a huge sample (e.g. cigarettes and cancer) is almost certain, so where is the small/huge boundary?
14. Science / C. Induction / 6. Bayes's Theorem
Since every tautology has a probability of 1, should we believe all tautologies? [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: It follows from the probability calculus that every tautology has probability 1; it then follows in Bayesian epistemology that we are justified in believing every tautology.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §4.3.1.5)
     A reaction: If I say 'a bachelor is a small ant' you wouldn't believe it, but if I said 'I define a bachelor as a small ant' you would have to believe it. 'Bachelors are unmarried' men is a description of English usage, so is not really a simple tautology.
14. Science / D. Explanation / 3. Best Explanation / a. Best explanation
Scientific confirmation is best viewed as inference to the best explanation [Pollock/Cruz]
     Full Idea: The confirmation of scientific theories is probably best viewed in terms of inference to the best explanation.
     From: J Pollock / J Cruz (Contemporary theories of Knowledge (2nd) [1999], §2.3.3.3)
     A reaction: A simple claim, but one with which I strongly agree. 'Inference', of course, implies that there is some fairly strict logical thinking going on, which may not be so. I suspect that dogs can move to the best explanation. It is, though, a rational process.
16. Persons / A. Concept of a Person / 3. Persons as Reasoners
Self is the rider, intellect the charioteer, mind the reins, and body the chariot [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: Know that the Self (Atman) is the rider, and the body the chariot; that the intellect is the charioteer, and the mind the reins.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Katha')
     A reaction: This strikes me as exactly right. Even my intellectual powers are servants of the self. This suggests the view of the mind as a tool, which does not seem to occur in modern discussions.
16. Persons / C. Self-Awareness / 2. Knowing the Self
We have an apparent and a true self; only the second one exists, and we must seek to know it [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: There are two selves, the apparent self, and the real Self. Of these it is the real Self (Atman), and he alone, who must be felt as truly existing. To the man who has felt him as truly existing he reveals his innermost nature.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Katha')
     A reaction: A central Hindu doctrine against which Buddhism rebelled, by denying the self altogether. I prefer the Hindu view. A desire to abandon the self just seems to be a desire for death. Knowledge of our essential self is more interesting. But see Idea 2932!
18. Thought / D. Concepts / 5. Concepts and Language / a. Concepts and language
Without speech we cannot know right/wrong, true/false, good/bad, or pleasant/unpleasant [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: If there were no speech, neither right nor wrong would be known, neither the true nor the false, neither the good nor the bad, neither the pleasant nor the unpleasant.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Chandogya')
     A reaction: This could stand as the epigraph for the whole of modern philosophy of language. However, the text goes on to say that mind is higher than speech. The test question is the mental capabilities of animals. Do they 'know' pleasure, or truth?
21. Aesthetics / A. Aesthetic Experience / 1. Aesthetics
Aesthetics has risen and fallen with Romanticism [Scruton]
     Full Idea: The rise and fall (as we presently perceive them) of aesthetics have been contemporaneous with the rise and fall of Romanticism.
     From: Roger Scruton (Recent Aesthetics in England and America [1980], p.3)
     A reaction: Maybe it started a little before Romanticism, as part of the Englightenment aim of being rational about everything, and maybe it survives Romanticism because we want to be scientific about everything.
21. Aesthetics / A. Aesthetic Experience / 2. Aesthetic Attitude
Aesthetic experience informs the world with the values of the observer [Scruton]
     Full Idea: It is possible to conclude that aesthetic experience has a peculiar practical significance: it represents the world as informed by the values of the observer.
     From: Roger Scruton (Recent Aesthetics in England and America [1980], p.13)
     A reaction: An excellent remark. If you look at, or listen to, anything, you can make a conscious effort to drain away your personal values (objectivity; science?), or you can consciously flood them with values. But moral and aesthetic vision must differ...
22. Metaethics / C. The Good / 3. Pleasure / c. Value of pleasure
The wise prefer good to pleasure; the foolish are drawn to pleasure by desire [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: The wise prefer the good to the pleasant; the foolish, driven by fleshly desires, prefer the pleasant ot the good.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Katha')
     A reaction: If you consider appropriate diet, this is too obvious to be worth saying. The complication is that it is doubtful whether a life without pleasure is wholly good, and even the pleasure of food is not bad. Of two good foods, prefer the pleasant one.
25. Social Practice / E. Policies / 5. Education / c. Teaching
Let your teacher be a god to you [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: Let your teacher be a god to you.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Taittiriya')
     A reaction: Yes indeed. The problem in the west is that we are committed to encouraging a critical and questioning attitude. A high value for knowledge must precede a high value for a teacher.
26. Natural Theory / B. Natural Kinds / 2. Defining Kinds
By knowing one piece of clay or gold, you know all of clay or gold [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: By knowing one lump of clay, all things made of clay are known; by knowing a nugget of gold, all things made of gold are known.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Chandogya')
     A reaction: I can't think of a better basic definition of a natural kind. There is an inductive assumption, of course, which hits trouble when you meet fool's gold, or two different sorts of jade. But the concept of a natural kind is no more than this.
27. Natural Reality / E. Cosmology / 2. Eternal Universe
Originally there must have been just Existence, which could not come from non-existence [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: In the beginning there was Existence, One only, without a second. Some say that in the beginning there was non-existence only, and that out of that the universe was born. But how could such a thing be? How could existence be born of non-existence?
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Chandogya')
     A reaction: A very rare instance of an argument in the Upanishads, arising out of a disagreement. The monotheistic religions have preferred to make God the eternal element, presumably because that raises his status, but is also explains the start as a decision.
28. God / A. Divine Nature / 1. God
Brahma, supreme god and protector of the universe, arose from the ocean of existence [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: Out of the infinite ocean of existence arose Brahma, first-born and foremost among the gods. From him sprang the universe, and he became its protector.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Mundaka')
     A reaction: Brahma does not have eternal (or necessary) existence. Could Brahma cease to exist? I suppose we cannot ask what caused the appearance of Brahma? Is it part of a plan, or just luck, or some sort of necessity?
28. God / B. Proving God / 3. Proofs of Evidence / a. Cosmological Proof
Brahman is the Uncaused Cause [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: Brahman is the Uncaused Cause.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Katha')
     A reaction: This precedes Aquinas (Idea 1430) by over two thousand years. The theological trick is to admit one Uncaused Cause, but somehow exclude further instances, such as my bicycle getting a puncture. Does this undermine the Principle of Sufficient Reason?
28. God / C. Attitudes to God / 2. Pantheism
Earth, food, fire, sun are all forms of Brahman [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: Earth, food, fire, sun - all these that you worship - are forms of Brahman.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Chandogya')
     A reaction: In 'Taittiriya' food is named as the "chief of all things". Pantheism seems to arise from a desire that one's god should have every conceivable good, so in addition to power and knowledge, your god must keep you warm and healthy.
29. Religion / A. Polytheistic Religion / 3. Hinduism
The gods are not worshipped for their own sake, but for the sake of the Self [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: It is not for the sake of the gods, my beloved, that the gods are worshipped, but for the sake of the Self (Atman).
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Brihadaranyaka')
     A reaction: There is an uneasy selfish streak in all religions, which conflicts with their exhorations to altruism, and to the love of the gods. It also occurs in the exhortation of Socrates to be virtuous. 'Pure' altruism seems only to arise in the 18th century.
A man with desires is continually reborn, until his desires are stilled [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: A man acts according to desires; after death he reaps the harvest of his deeds, and returns again to the world of action. Thus he who has desires continues subject to rebirth, but he in who desire is stilled suffers no rebirth.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Brihadaranyaka')
     A reaction: I greatly prefer the Stoic idea (Idea 3066) that we should live according to nature, to this perverse longing to completely destroy our own nature and become something we are not. Play the cards you are dealt, which include desires.
Damayata - be self-controlled! Datta - be charitable! Dayadhwam - be compassionate! [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: The storm-clouds thunder: Da! Da! Da! Damayata - be self-controlled! Datta - be charitable! Dayadhwam - be compassionate!
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Brihadaranyaka')
     A reaction: Compassion seems to imply charity, so it comes down to 'Be self-controlled and compassionate'. Only the wildest romantic could be against self-control. Only Nietzsche could be against compassion (Idea 4425).
Those ignorant of Atman return as animals or plants, according to their merits [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: Of those ignorant of the Self (Atman), some enter into beings possessed of wombs, others enter into plants - according to their deeds and the growth of their intelligence.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Katha')
     A reaction: "I sigh and sigh, and wish I were a tree" wrote George Herbert. You probably need the snobbery of the Indian caste system to appreciate the horrors of low rebirth. I quite fancy being a dolphin, but a tulip would be all right.
29. Religion / D. Religious Issues / 1. Religious Commitment / a. Religious Belief
Charity and ritual observance distract from the highest good of religion [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: Considering religion to be observance of rituals and performance of acts of charity, the deluded remain ignorant of the highest good.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Mundaka')
     A reaction: An important reminder. In all the great religious texts the exhortation to love and charity is a minor aspect. The point is to live on a spiritual plain, attempting to relate the world of God/the gods. Daily life is either secondary or irrelevant.
29. Religion / D. Religious Issues / 1. Religious Commitment / e. Fideism
Do not seek to know Brahman by arguments, for arguments are idle and vain [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: Do not seek to know Brahman by arguments, for arguments are idle and vain.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Brihadaranyaka')
     A reaction: In the end all the religions seem to gravitate towards fideism and away from reasoned argument. The Catholic Church may be the last bastion of rational theology. Islam (10th cent), Protestantism (16th) and Judaism (17th) all rejected philosophy.
29. Religion / D. Religious Issues / 2. Immortality / b. Soul
The immortal in us is the part that never sleeps, and shapes our dreams [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: That which is awake in us even while we sleep, shaping in dream the objects of our desire - that indeed is pure, that is Brahman, and that verily is called the Immortal.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Katha')
     A reaction: That is a more helpful view of what the soul might be than anything found in Christian theology. It makes it the essence of the everyday Self. It is left with the difficulty of lacking individuality, and being of limited interest to my wider Self.
The immortal Self and the sad individual self are like two golden birds perched on one tree [Anon (Upan)]
     Full Idea: Like two birds of golden plumage, the individual self and the immortal Self perch on the branches of the same tree. The individual self, deluded by forgetfulness of his identity with the divine self, bewildered by his ego, grieves and is sad.
     From: Anon (Upan) (The Upanishads [c.950 BCE], 'Mundaka')
     A reaction: Hinduism gives a much clearer and bolder picture of the soul than Christianity does. I don't see much consolation in the immortality of the wonderful Self, if my individual self is doomed to misery and extinction. Which one is me?